|
|
Post by trashgrind on Jan 29, 2018 19:03:42 GMT -5
So the former guitarist from expire is probably a rapist "Now what?" you ask yourself as you sit there scratching your head. Should I go through and toss out the ticket stubs I've saved? Do i hit my head against a wall to selectively delete the memory that I ever liked them?
I think about it a lot. How much separation do you think there is between an artist and their work? It seem's that everyone is a rapist now. Obviously this all started with Cosby and is trickling down into our scene. It's getting a bit absurd. I understand that these are terrible actions but that shouldn't diminish somebody's work especially when its a joint creative venture like a band. This is the first time I'm gonna say this but I do see a bit of an outrage culture, and it sucks because I really do find it disgusting, but I find it impossible to just act like I never liked a band.
idk. I'm not sure that there is a good answer, but I'm just curious about what you guys think
|
|
|
|
Post by v9733xa on Jan 29, 2018 19:36:49 GMT -5
By being a fan or a person who is clearly guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, you are contributing to the fame or success that helped put that person in the position of authority to commit said offenses.
I'm not going to lie and say that i'm not conflicted about it though. But i try to be clear about what my support what contribute in those situations, and limit that to only though obviously guilty or otherwise compromised by a preponderance of evidence or accusations.
Roman Polanski. He was convicted of assault on a minor and fled the country before the official sentence. All things equal, he's a film-making genius, with a couple of the best films of the last half century. But i cannot in good conscience financially support any of them. Will i watch them online somewhere, or record them on TV? Yeah sure. That's not benefiting him in any way. The same goes for Woody Allen, who is not quite as much of a slam-dunk case but the preponderance of evidence is piling up... i can't see myself attending a Woody Allen film in a theater, but i readily enjoy all his old movies quite a bit.
You were originally more specifically talking about music/bands, so i'll address that in the same way. I have no problem stealing music from bands whose members, actions, political viewpoints, or accusations trouble me. I won't give them a dollar, and i probably won't feel bad if my piracy helps end the band.
On your point about "outrage culture," i respectfully disagree; alleged victims should be heard and respected, and accusations should be investigated and litigated to reasonable extents. But i see nothing wrong with continue to like a band, or actor, or director, or whatever... as long as you aren't supporting them anymore than your intrinsic fandom. Steal their music, movies, or books. If you do, however, use your money to support someone clearly guilty (or at least, guilty in the court of public opinion), be ready to defend yourself, and respect the right of others to call your support objectionable.
|
|
|
|
Post by Velocity on Jan 29, 2018 20:04:19 GMT -5
It's tough for me too...as an example: one of the members of Ovid's Withering was soliciting young girls. I love the band, and they kicked him out when they found out the full extent of it. They also haven't made anything new since. Am I allowed to still like the band and support them...especially because they kicked him out?
|
|
|
|
Post by Calvinball on Jan 29, 2018 20:31:10 GMT -5
It's tough for me too...as an example: one of the members of Ovid's Withering was soliciting young girls. I love the band, and they kicked him out when they found out the full extent of it. They also haven't made anything new since. Am I allowed to still like the band and support them...especially because they kicked him out? I have a hard time condemning an entire band because of the actions of an individual, if they are unaware of a situation and react accordingly 4-5 other people shouldn't be asked to sacrifice their livelihood because of the actions of one asshole. |
|
|
|
Post by panterabread on Jan 29, 2018 20:54:31 GMT -5
I just wish i never got this dang Expire tattoo now
|
|
|
|
Post by Blacksalt on Jan 29, 2018 21:21:48 GMT -5
I just wish i never got this dang Expire tattoo now So because one piece of shit is a sexual assaulter the entire band and all of their music is forever outlawed? Come on now... |
|
|
|
Post by panterabread on Jan 29, 2018 21:46:05 GMT -5
I just wish i never got this dang Expire tattoo now So because one piece of shit is a sexual assaulter the entire band and all of their music is forever outlawed? Come on now... Another member has allegations against him now. But it really doesn't help that the tattoo is really really ugly |
|
|
|
Post by Calvinball on Jan 29, 2018 23:17:22 GMT -5
So because one piece of shit is a sexual assaulter the entire band and all of their music is forever outlawed? Come on now... Another member has allegations against him now. But it really doesn't help that the tattoo is really really ugly Pics or it didn't happen, let's see this tattoo! |
|
|
|
Post by panterabread on Jan 29, 2018 23:54:07 GMT -5
Another member has allegations against him now. But it really doesn't help that the tattoo is really really ugly Pics or it didn't happen, let's see this tattoo! Get ready for this shit  |
|
|
|
Post by Zeke on Jan 30, 2018 2:24:32 GMT -5
Pics or it didn't happen, let's see this tattoo! Get ready for this shit That's not as bad as you made it sound to be imo. Regarding the topic: I guess I am also a bit torn on this. I try to separate an individual from its actions. Just because one person fucked up, the whole band shouldn't be condemned. Also there's different sorts of fucked up too. If you did it once accidentally (didn't know she was underage), or constantly exploiting people. It's interesting to see all the points in this thread, it's a proof why this community rocks. |
|
|
|
Post by essien on Jan 30, 2018 3:33:55 GMT -5
I'll never listen to Lostprophets again and they were one of my favourite bands when I was a teenager and the first band I saw live. Not just because their legacy is tainted but because I can't hear them without thinking about the disgusting news reports I read from when Ian Watkins was convicted. Probably an extreme example though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ghostchant on Jan 30, 2018 6:49:55 GMT -5
A lot of my thoughts have been mentioned here already...
One thing that needs to end is the continuation of defending and the supporting of outed problematic individuals within the music community. I see new bands springing up with outed members all the time and their 'friends' or 'band members' looking the other way. This is especially evident in the hardcore community.
If a band member is guilty of sexual or physical assault, that is inexcusable. Period.
The same thing can be said with a member sharing racist, fascist or homophobic ideals.
|
|
|
|
Post by Blacksalt on Jan 30, 2018 9:01:39 GMT -5
I'll never listen to Lostprophets again and they were one of my favourite bands when I was a teenager and the first band I saw live. Not just because their legacy is tainted but because I can't hear them without thinking about the disgusting news reports I read from when Ian Watkins was convicted. Probably an extreme example though. I feel so bad for the rest of the band but have a really difficult time believing they never had any clues how much of a total deviant meth head Watkins was. |
|
|
|
Post by sirmoshington on Jan 30, 2018 9:40:52 GMT -5
Going through that tumblr and reading all those stories made me sick. Its so crazy that the other Expire members supposedly never noticed any of his discribed behavior. I mean I do think their statements and apologies are sincere (not talking about Zach he is a piece of shit) but this dude is obviously a sexual predator and not just "promiscuous", so just like panterabread I do feel a bit stupid with my tattoo. Don't get me wrong I don't regret it, and I hold the lyrics dear to my heart, but I also have a hard time seperating his actions from the music. |
|
|
|
Post by avarice on Jan 30, 2018 11:02:16 GMT -5
I never quite drank the Expire kool-aid but I can definitely relate to this dilemma. The band that really crushed me with this was Enabler, one of the only bands I bought merch online for haha. All kinds of stuff came out from Justin's ex about how he was abusive in almost every way, and the band just ceased to exist. I used to listen to their music all the time and now it's pretty much just a memory that's forever tainted.
In more of a Roman Polanski-esque example, H.P. Lovecraft has been arguably my favorite author for years. Nowadays there are many different articles that roast him for being an old-timey racist. Naturally I was crushed and appalled, but instead of throwing his books away I decided to do my own research and see how his words made me feel personally. While it was definitely disturbing, I really didn't believe that it was any more intense than something an ignorant great-grandparent might say. He believed in ridiculous, antiquated sciences that were basically passed down to him by his family, and the man was a known recluse his entire life. I will never be able to hold him in the high regard I once did, but I believe that the art he produced is spectacular enough and removed enough from those beliefs that they can still bring me joy and are worthy of critical analysis.
However, if HP were alive and believed these things in 2018, buying his books would feel very wrong to me personally. I would feel like I was validating his beliefs, which is an entirely different story.
|
|
