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Post by tao on Apr 9, 2019 14:08:49 GMT -5
If he likes this, I’d like to request he watch Takashi Miike’s “Audition” and let me know his thoughts on it. haven't seen that film in years. we should make it one of the film choices for the club! Funny enough, it was the first thing I thought of after watching “Clovehitch”; brought it out of deep six and I wanna watch/review it for my Letterboxd, but I don’t wanna spoil anything.
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Post by tao on Apr 10, 2019 14:17:49 GMT -5
If the majority of people in the club haven’t seen it and everyone is willing, then I’d be down to switch my rec for May from “Mirai” to “Audition”.
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Post by stuartoxlade on Apr 11, 2019 4:15:32 GMT -5
If the majority of people in the club haven’t seen it and everyone is willing, then I’d be down to switch my rec for May from “Mirai” to “Audition”. I think i actually own that so that makes it easier for me to watch it
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Post by essien on Apr 13, 2019 12:09:07 GMT -5
Watched it this afternoon. I have a few discussion points in mind already - will post them up soon.
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Post by essien on Apr 19, 2019 12:10:25 GMT -5
Just a few days until the deadline, guise. Here's a few discussion points - in spoiler tags because spoilers. 1. Was the film what you were expecting? 2. What was the most unsettling part of the film for you? 3. What did you think about them not reporting Clovehitch's identity to the police at the end? Were they justified or selfish? 4. Do you think Clovehitch's son shot him or did he shoot himself? 5. Did you read any social commentary into the film?
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Post by v9733xa on Apr 19, 2019 16:47:14 GMT -5
I'll watch tonight, I promise.
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Post by v9733xa on Apr 21, 2019 16:55:34 GMT -5
Looking forward to talking about this smart and interesting film.
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Post by essien on Apr 22, 2019 9:29:58 GMT -5
Feel free to start posting, guys. Figured I'd let someone else respond to my discussion points before I do.
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Post by tao on Apr 22, 2019 14:46:17 GMT -5
Just a few days until the deadline, guise. Here's a few discussion points - in spoiler tags because spoilers. 1. Was the film what you were expecting? 2. What was the most unsettling part of the film for you? 3. What did you think about them not reporting Clovehitch's identity to the police at the end? Were they justified or selfish? 4. Do you think Clovehitch's son shot him or did he shoot himself? 5. Did you read any social commentary into the film? Just waiting for the actual deadline so as not to spoil it for anyone else. Alright... 1) in a basic way, yes. I mean, you kinda figured it was the dad all along, that kind of narrative twist has been ingrained in us for so long, even throwing in the red herring of the uncle being the “killer” wasn’t enough to shake my conclusions. 2) the dad, just how far he allowed himself after having been deprived, so to speak. It was unsettling to see how much he still thought upon and planned everything out; and how easily he was able to slip in and out of his two natures. 3) I think ultimately they did do the right thing, and it was a little bit of both motivations, both because of what the ramifications of revealing the identity of the killer to everyone would’ve done to the community, let alone the family. We get a taste of that with how the mom completely falls apart after being notified of the body being found. 4) I think the son shot him, but the dad allowed it. He realized he couldn’t stop himself and this was the only way to stop. 5) I don’t remember any social commentary, but I’d be interested to hear if anyone else gleaned anything out of it. Fire away, gentlemen.
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Post by v9733xa on Apr 22, 2019 17:19:10 GMT -5
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Post by v9733xa on Apr 22, 2019 17:31:33 GMT -5
Just a few days until the deadline, guise. Here's a few discussion points - in spoiler tags because spoilers. 1. Was the film what you were expecting? 2. What was the most unsettling part of the film for you? 3. What did you think about them not reporting Clovehitch's identity to the police at the end? Were they justified or selfish? 4. Do you think Clovehitch's son shot him or did he shoot himself? 5. Did you read any social commentary into the film? Just waiting for the actual deadline so as not to spoil it for anyone else. Alright... 1) in a basic way, yes. I mean, you kinda figured it was the dad all along, that kind of narrative twist has been ingrained in us for so long, even throwing in the red herring of the uncle being the “killer” wasn’t enough to shake my conclusions. 2) the dad, just how far he allowed himself after having been deprived, so to speak. It was unsettling to see how much he still thought upon and planned everything out; and how easily he was able to slip in and out of his two natures. 3) I think ultimately they did do the right thing, and it was a little bit of both motivations, both because of what the ramifications of revealing the identity of the killer to everyone would’ve done to the community, let alone the family. We get a taste of that with how the mom completely falls apart after being notified of the body being found. 4) I think the son shot him, but the dad allowed it. He realized he couldn’t stop himself and this was the only way to stop. 5) I don’t remember any social commentary, but I’d be interested to hear if anyone else gleaned anything out of it. Fire away, gentlemen. My thoughts as well, on top of the review.
Like i wrote, i loved that this movie kept throwing you for a loop. "Wait, it would be too easy to be the dad." "Okay, see, it wasn't." "Hold up, no really, it still is!" And then you just see him ready to do it all over again. It was like a movie for people who watch Dateline and say "goddamn, can this get any more predictable?" and want something that completely subverts the crime thriller genre.
What was unsettling to me, and maybe i have to see this part again, is the mom's reaction when confronted near the end of the film. She says something to the effect of "he's changed!" like she KNEW all along. Damn, i mean if she knew?? She's almost as guilty as he is! That totally blew me away; i was expecting her to deny deny deny or at least just be too stupid to understand. Instead she basically excused it like it was a bad habit he could cure. Amazing.
Right, it's clear that the kid was so worried about his family's reputation, and of course his individual one as well. Maybe that's selfish, but i think anyone can understand where he's coming from. I've heard parents in real life say that they would never ever turn their children in, no matter what they did, and would fight for their lives to protect them. Maybe, even after this horror show, Tyler just still needed to protect his dad, who he seemed to still respect in a way despite this revelation. Disturbing, but all too human.
Yeah, the kid shot him. Maybe that was closure. I bet in a twisted way, the dad wanted him to. Remember what he said earlier? "Don't point a gun unless you intend to use it?" Tyler finally became a man, by killing his father. Neat.
The social commentary is certainly the religious angle, which i dug bigtime. My Mike Pence joke aside, the themes about concealing your urges -- a very American idea in religious circles -- is pervasive here. And though it's of course twisted and exaggerated, the film was trying to say that be repressing your kinks and fetishes is super fucking unhealthy. Find a way to let that out safely or you will start murdering people in no time.
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Post by stuartoxlade on Apr 23, 2019 2:46:38 GMT -5
Just a few days until the deadline, guise. Here's a few discussion points - in spoiler tags because spoilers. 1. Was the film what you were expecting? 2. What was the most unsettling part of the film for you? 3. What did you think about them not reporting Clovehitch's identity to the police at the end? Were they justified or selfish? 4. Do you think Clovehitch's son shot him or did he shoot himself? 5. Did you read any social commentary into the film? Really enjoyed this slow-burner so another excellent entry into the Film Club, kudos! 1. I really had no expectations for this other than assuming it might be lame because Dylan McDermott was in it (His filmography is sub-par at best although I liked him in American Horror Story) 2. The bit where he tries to shoot his son near the end, but ends up trying to strangle him instead, that genuinely shocked me 3. I think if i was in their shoes, I'd consider it as well. Imagine all of the media attention you'd get; you'd never live down that "he's the son of a serial killer" tag ever again. Given how widespread the internet is as well, it's not like you could move to the other side of the country and still not expect it to be out there either 4. I assumed the son shot him, but I think the point raised below about him allowing it is a good one. I imagine when you've got an addiction and you know you can't self-discipline, it's easier to let someone else make the decision for you 5. Not particularly, has anyone else? Didn't realise this was from the writer of Cop Car and Robot & Frank. Loved both of those as well. They could/should be films to follow up with at some point if people haven't seen them
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Post by essien on Apr 23, 2019 3:00:31 GMT -5
Glad to hear you guys enjoyed it! I'll respond to my own points...
1. Was the film what you were expecting? It actually wasn't. I was interested to see that you guys found this to be a whodunnit movie, because for me, there wasn't a doubt in my mind that the father was the killer throughout. There were just too many red flags. So I watched this as more of a family drama than a thriller, albeit a very sad one. The thriller element for me came more from how the son got conclusive proof, and the impact it had on him.
2. What was the most unsettling part of the film for you? Two parts for me: firstly when the dad dresses up in women's clothes and a mask and takes photos of himself tied up (I have a phobia of masks, particularly ones like that) and secondly when he has the meltdown because he's burned his whole stash of murder porn and the new photos he's taken of himself clearly aren't satisfying his urges. It just disturbed me to think there are actually people out there who are like that.
3. What did you think about them not reporting Clovehitch's identity to the police at the end? Were they justified or selfish? I think they should've turned him in so that the families of the other victims had closure. I read a lot of unsolved true crime stories and I know how much it haunts people not knowing if the killer of their loved one is still out there and for them to never getting justice/closure. It was a selfish act in that they got their own closure and the son protected his own reputation and future. I was just thinking as well about that poor woman who was terrorised in her own home and wouldn't know if Clovehitch would be coming back for her.
4. Do you think Clovehitch's son shot him or did he shoot himself? I agree with Andrew on this. It hadn't crossed my mind that it could've been a suicide until I read it in another review.
5. Did you read any social commentary into the film? Again, similar to what Andrew said. I saw a critique of how the people in society who paint themselves as the most virtuous (typically religious) can be some of the worst and most destructive. I think there was also something about our obsession with true crime and serial killers, in how it subverted the way these themes are normally presented.
A few other random points: - I thought it was an oddly bleak movie that left me with a hollow feeling afterwards. I also think more could've done more to ramp up the tension in certain scenes. - There were a few scenes where it went back and showed events from different perspectives. I found these to be a little jarring because I didn't think it was that kind of movie at the time. - The killer's MO reminded me a lot of the Golden State Killer and I'm sure he was at least part of the inspiration.
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Post by stuartoxlade on Apr 23, 2019 7:15:21 GMT -5
On a lighter note, I loved how the (potentially) gay kid in his class got to speak at his Dad's funeral. How did he wangle that?!
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Post by stuartoxlade on Apr 23, 2019 7:20:40 GMT -5
A few other random points: - The killer's MO reminded me a lot of the Golden State Killer and I'm sure he was at least part of the inspiration. www.metro.us/entertainment/movies/is-the-clovehitch-killer-based-on-real-eventsTurns out it's based on Dennis Rader, who killed 10 people in the Wichita, Kansas, area between 1974 and 1991. That's the guy who featured in Season 1 of Mindhunter on Netflix, otherwise known as the BTK (Bind. Torture. Kill) killer. He was also a cub scout leader, was part of a church group, and he used his job as a security alarm installer to find his victims.
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